I don't know what the Buddha said and I doubt everything he ever said has been recorded, I'm not debating whether things are Buddhist teachings or not nor can I confirm or deny that "bad karma" has anything to do with an animal birth (it might be but I can't just say "it is so" because humans have written it on a piece of paper) I've been observing Eurasian Collared Doves for a few years now, I don't see what you say that they are suffering, they are very playful, loving in their community and compared to human relations(hips) I think most humans could learn something from observing and interacting with animals. As regards to whether animals can practise, again I couldn't say that they can't, in the same way animals probably can't say whether humans can or cannot practise.Seeker242 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 22, 2019 11:44 pm
The question was not whether they need to or not, the question was whether they can. If you could do bad karma, be reborn in the animal realm because of that, and continue practicing, the Buddha would have said so. But, he never said that or taught that. That's not a Buddhist teaching.
Perhaps, perhaps not, perhaps it's only true/expediently applicable from the human situation (I know what the scriptures say yes)Animals do need it, because animals suffer. It's no secret that every Buddhist tradition, including zen, considers human birth to be the most beneficial for practice to end the suffering of beings. The problem with most humans is they waste this opportunity and then most of them fall back to the animal realms or hell realms because they did waste it. And therefore, continue to suffer. If one wishes for beings to stop suffering, one wishes them to have a most favorable rebirth for that, the most favorable rebirth is human.
Perhaps, and again it might be only applicable to humans. and again bodhisattvas manifest as animals for sure. So no need for "practise" they only have to be. Since there is no person or self that is reborn, but merely unspent energies (karmas) provide the next form, there is no person-link from one life to the next, only energies, so wisdom/love can manifest in accordance with causes and conditions and I think it's silly (and arrogant) to suggest it always has to manifest as a human form then. Many humans are born with pure "evil" predispositions and many animals are born as bodhisattvas.Sure, but that does not mean the cats were practicing anything.
In my view the scriptures say what they say to serve expediently for humans, such is their design, they can't be held as truth in themselves, at least that's how I see it.