Calming the Mind

Anything at all goes here. Keep it clean.
Bobwidget
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Re: Calming the Mind

Post by Bobwidget » Sat Apr 27, 2019 12:14 am

avisitor wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:58 pm
desert_woodworker wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:30 pm
Enver started it. Let's see if Enver is satisfied or not with the way that the pendulum has swung.

It'll swing back anyway, some time, though (oh?). Do we have to force it? Encourage it? Dunno. Enver??

--Joe
A while back, Enver M. , proclaimed his desire to proceed with his efforts to ... ????
Anyway, he hasn't posted in a while ... here.
He was still active at Zenguide.com
This is where BOB came from. Enver told him about this place

Bobwidget wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:58 pm
In a aware state info is info. No info should disturb. If it matches the aware state where one accepts truths regardless of what they desire then it can be understood. If it disturbs then one is still in a state of objective reality where info percieved in life causes the attention to be insecure. If you cannot grasp this message you work within the confines of narrow minded attention and not stillness of aware being.
Never said I was enlightened. Or Body aware like you are.
And yes, I do work within the confines of a narrow minded attention and not stillness of aware being
Cause this is a forum and not your private arena
Not trying to be private. I have a old relative that you can't talk to while they are eating because they must focus on how the food tastes. How they pay attention to their breathing because of copd and make it ten times worse.

Hold on. I must pay attention too feel the keys pressed. I'm trying to listen to you with my tounge but noises distract me. Let me look with my ears.

For Jesus said. I am my arms and my legs and head as a whole.

Opps can't see. I stopped paying attention to light.

This is not a arena. Nor private. Where do you see this? Because it conflicts with narrow minded attention instead of you attempting to understand me? I understand you perfect. You don't understand me. Not my lack.

Spike
Posts: 212
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:35 am

Re: Calming the Mind

Post by Spike » Sat Apr 27, 2019 12:38 am

Bobwidget wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:09 pm
Siddhartha . . . He was a friend.
Did you speak to him?

Bobwidget
Posts: 68
Joined: Thu Apr 18, 2019 4:21 pm

Re: Calming the Mind

Post by Bobwidget » Sat Apr 27, 2019 1:00 am

Spike wrote:
Sat Apr 27, 2019 12:38 am
Bobwidget wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:09 pm
Siddhartha . . . He was a friend.
Did you speak to him?
This question doubts reincarnation. Do you doubt reincarnation?

I will say this. The mushin doctrine is totally wrong of the zen dogen school. I surrender. As long as people don't stick their head dingalings pointing in my direction. That's indecent exposure. Hahahaha. If you don't find that funny as shit your uptight as shit. Haha.

Bobwidget
Posts: 68
Joined: Thu Apr 18, 2019 4:21 pm

Re: Calming the Mind

Post by Bobwidget » Sat Apr 27, 2019 1:07 am

Your attentions are like superman laser vision piercing my skin and brain....oh wait. No. Seems I'm kryptonite tending to make you insecure. Hahaha. Such a obvious statement. One that insults or one that solidifies you?

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desert_woodworker
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Location: Southern Arizona desert, USA

Re: Calming the Mind

Post by desert_woodworker » Sat Apr 27, 2019 1:12 am

Mushin is just no-mind. No mind. This is what is revealed at awakening, and afterwards.

No mind is Buddha mind, maybe let's say. Nothing controversial here, I shouldn't think, if you've been in formal practice a decade or two and working closely with teacher and sangha (some practitioners auger-into it even earlier, or ablate or slough-off the false-mind sooner).

It's just what this is all about, I mean, what it comes down to. No mind. No mind. Wonderful! This Mind.

See what your teacher says.

--Joe

Bobwidget
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Re: Calming the Mind

Post by Bobwidget » Sat Apr 27, 2019 1:19 am

desert_woodworker wrote:
Sat Apr 27, 2019 1:12 am
Mushin is just no-mind. No mind. This is what is revealed at awakening, and afterwards.

No mind is Buddha mind, maybe let's say. Nothing controversial here, I shouldn't think, if you've been in formal practice a decade or two and working closely with teacher and sangha (some practitioners auger-into it even earlier, or ablate or slough-off the false-mind sooner).

It's just what this is all about, I mean, what it comes down to. No mind. No mind. Wonderful! This Mind.

See what your teacher says.

--Joe
Nothing in the head save thoughts we create to pop in.

Tree stump. Quarry.

Spike
Posts: 212
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:35 am

Re: Calming the Mind

Post by Spike » Sat Apr 27, 2019 1:20 am

Bobwidget wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:09 pm
Siddhartha . . . He was a friend.
Did you speak to him?
Bobwidget wrote: This question doubts reincarnation. Do you doubt reincarnation?
I never think about it. My question was: yes or no?

Bobwidget
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Re: Calming the Mind

Post by Bobwidget » Sat Apr 27, 2019 1:36 am

Spike wrote:
Sat Apr 27, 2019 1:20 am
Bobwidget wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:09 pm
Siddhartha . . . He was a friend.
Did you speak to him?
Bobwidget wrote: This question doubts reincarnation. Do you doubt reincarnation?
I never think about it. My question was: yes or no?
That question is objective. So you doubt siddhartha the founder of zen and his claims of remembering all past lives? Your question is answered if you answer mine. Did I speak to Siddhartha my friend? Your answer yes or no if you know reincarnation is true.

Spike
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Re: Calming the Mind

Post by Spike » Sat Apr 27, 2019 1:48 am

You seem to know more about reincarnation than I do, because I never think about it. I will take your answer as "No".

I am glad. If it had been "Yes", I would have asked if he replied verbally (note that I have no issue with the habit of soliloquy). If so, it then would have been challenging to confirm such an account vs auditory hallucination.

P.S. Siddhartha did not found zen.

Bobwidget
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Re: Calming the Mind

Post by Bobwidget » Sat Apr 27, 2019 2:15 am

Spike wrote:
Sat Apr 27, 2019 1:48 am
You seem to know more about reincarnation than I do, because I never think about it. I will take your answer as "No".

I am glad. If it had been "Yes", I would have asked if he replied verbally (note that I have no issue with the habit of soliloquy). If so, it then would have been challenging to confirm such an account vs auditory hallucination.

P.S. Siddhartha did not found zen.
Total objective. Study Zen doubt reincarnation because insecurity stands in the way. Very illogical. I lived during Siddhartha's time.

Bobwidget
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Re: Calming the Mind

Post by Bobwidget » Sat Apr 27, 2019 2:16 am

One foundation of zen is reincarnation.

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desert_woodworker
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Re: Calming the Mind

Post by desert_woodworker » Sat Apr 27, 2019 2:25 am

Hmm. I think "Zen" has no "foundations". Anyway, the fewer the better! Foundations are places for the moving ship to run aground. :)

(oh, not nice of me).

Another thing is that there is no ..."Zen".

But, there is Ch'an- and Zen- Buddhist practice. Practice...

What may result in practice is awakening. But this entails good cooperating causes and conditions. There are no guarantees. Still, true practice is a definite "good", with teacher and sangha.

--Joe

Bobwidget
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Joined: Thu Apr 18, 2019 4:21 pm

Re: Calming the Mind

Post by Bobwidget » Sat Apr 27, 2019 2:29 am

desert_woodworker wrote:
Sat Apr 27, 2019 2:25 am
Hmm. I think "Zen" has no "foundations". Anyway, the fewer the better! Foundations are places for the moving ship to run aground. :)

(oh, not nice of me).

Another thing is that there is no ..."Zen".

But, there is Ch'an- and Zen- Buddhist practice. Practice...

What may result in practice is awakening. But this entails good cooperating causes and conditions. There are no guarantees. Still, true practice is a definite "good", with teacher and sangha.

--Joe
Mincing words. Reincarnation has been a mainstay of zen forever.

Tree stump. Quarry.

Spike
Posts: 212
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:35 am

Re: Calming the Mind

Post by Spike » Sat Apr 27, 2019 2:37 am

Bobwidget wrote:
Sat Apr 27, 2019 2:16 am
One foundation of zen is reincarnation.
Perhaps another foundation of zen is doubt.

Reincarnation is a powerful metaphor. Per my favorite verse from Goethe:

So lang du das nicht hast dieses: stirb und verde,
Bist du nur ein truber gast auf diesen dunkeln erde.

As long as you do not know how to die and be reborn, you are but a sorry traveler on this dark earth.

This is pretty much the sum of my understanding of reincarnation.

P.S. I do not believe Christ rose from the dead.

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desert_woodworker
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Re: Calming the Mind

Post by desert_woodworker » Sat Apr 27, 2019 2:43 am

B-dub.,
Bobwidget wrote:
Sat Apr 27, 2019 2:29 am
Mincing words. Reincarnation has been a mainstay of zen forever.

Tree stump. Quarry.
Negative.

I don't mention "reincarnation". And, would not.

But I say there is no "Zen".

That is just about all that's important to know.

There is, however, Zen- practice. And, sorry, that IS important to know. It can be found-out about at your local Zen Buddhist center. Or maybe not so local. But, worth driving to. Or ask Uber.

best,

--Joe

Bobwidget
Posts: 68
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Re: Calming the Mind

Post by Bobwidget » Sat Apr 27, 2019 2:47 am

Spike wrote:
Sat Apr 27, 2019 2:37 am
Bobwidget wrote:
Sat Apr 27, 2019 2:16 am
One foundation of zen is reincarnation.
Perhaps another foundation of zen is doubt.

Reincarnation is a powerful metaphor. Per my favorite verse from Goethe:

So lang du das nicht hast dieses: stirb und verde,
Bist du nur ein truber gast auf diesen dunkeln erde.

As long as you do not know how to die and be reborn, you are but a sorry traveler on this dark earth.

This is pretty much the sum of my understanding of reincarnation.

P.S. I do not believe Christ rose from the dead.
A foundation built on doubt is insecurity of attention. So incorrect. I've read these imagined passages from those not knowing.

So you don't believe in reincarnation though its a basic tenant of zen? Your smarter somehow then Siddhartha?

Jesus gift was not raising from the dead. Like those put in graves they discovered were not dead. His gift was not dying because him his body refused.

P.s. the world we know is mostly lies and imagination.

Spike
Posts: 212
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:35 am

Re: Calming the Mind

Post by Spike » Sat Apr 27, 2019 2:54 am

Bobwidget wrote:
Sat Apr 27, 2019 2:47 am

P.s. the world we know is mostly lies and imagination.

Bobwidget
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Re: Calming the Mind

Post by Bobwidget » Sat Apr 27, 2019 3:09 am

Tree stump. Quarry.

May your being be still and aware. May you not take of the false pretense of imagined peace.

Spike
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Re: Calming the Mind

Post by Spike » Sat Apr 27, 2019 3:20 am

Bobwidget wrote: Your smarter somehow then Siddhartha?
Don't know. Never talked with him.

Bobwidget
Posts: 68
Joined: Thu Apr 18, 2019 4:21 pm

Re: Calming the Mind

Post by Bobwidget » Sat Apr 27, 2019 3:37 am

Spike wrote:
Sat Apr 27, 2019 3:20 am
Bobwidget wrote: Your smarter somehow then Siddhartha?
Don't know. Never talked with him.
Your smarter then the zen masters who know reincarnation is a reality. You study zen but doubt the teachings? Well that's ego for you not to self understand. Oh I see your adopting the not know weird zen approach. Maybe there is a school of thought of doubt. Hmm. Carrying this in your head. Yep.

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