Zen Practice

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Spike
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Re: Zen Practice

Post by Spike » Sun Jun 02, 2019 11:07 pm

loves' the unjust wrote:
Sat Jun 01, 2019 1:03 pm
I believe I've learn the practice

technically
I don't think so. Zazen is zen practice. As much has been affirmed by me and by others on this forum. You don't do, and don't want to do, zazen, as best as I can tell. You do not have a dialogue with, and do not want to have a dialogue with, a zen teacher. Your practice is FWM, and probably will not change. Your interest in zen may be appreciated here, maybe, but really, talk not converted into action is not practice, it is only a shallow peek at it. Perhaps in the readiness of time you will begin. You certainly have the patience!

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loves' the unjust
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Re: Zen Practice

Post by loves' the unjust » Mon Jun 03, 2019 7:41 am

Spike wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 11:07 pm
loves' the unjust wrote:
Sat Jun 01, 2019 1:03 pm
I believe I've learn the practice

technically
I don't think so. Zazen is zen practice. As much has been affirmed by me and by others on this forum. You don't do, and don't want to do, zazen, as best as I can tell. You do not have a dialogue with, and do not want to have a dialogue with, a zen teacher. Your practice is FWM, and probably will not change. Your interest in zen may be appreciated here, maybe, but really, talk not converted into action is not practice, it is only a shallow peek at it. Perhaps in the readiness of time you will begin. You certainly have the patience!
How do you come to decide that i don't want to do zazen?

i just said there i've technically solve the problem.

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fuki
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Re: Zen Practice

Post by fuki » Mon Jun 03, 2019 2:23 pm

Spike wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 11:07 pm
Your practice is FWM
I don't think that's fair (if I understand the FWM thingy)
But I do think it would be handy if a thread like this is moved to the lounge since it's about Enver's personal viewpoints and it's kind of like him "randomly" expressing his dharma-play thoughts one after the other, so it doesn't suit the main forum or the main subject in a general sense.
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clyde
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Re: Zen Practice

Post by clyde » Mon Jun 03, 2019 10:54 pm

NOTE: I asked loves’ the unjust about Fuki’s suggestion and he concurred.
“Enlightenment means to see what harm you are involved in and to renounce it.” David Brazier, The New Buddhism

“The most straightforward advice on awakening enlightened mind is this: practice not causing harm to anyone—yourself or others—and every day, do what you can to be helpful.” Pema Chodron, “What to Do When the Going Gets Rough”

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fuki
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Re: Zen Practice

Post by fuki » Mon Jun 03, 2019 11:23 pm

clyde wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 10:54 pm
NOTE: I asked loves’ the unjust about Fuki’s suggestion and he concurred.
:lol:

See we can/could all learn from our Friend - loves’ the unjust :)
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Re: Zen Practice

Post by fuki » Mon Jun 03, 2019 11:27 pm

ps though we have plenty of "practise instructions" on this forum,
this one wouldn't hurt to add.

http://levekunst.com/the-sunlit-sky-of- ... -rinpoche/
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Spike
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Re: Zen Practice

Post by Spike » Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:36 am

fuki wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 2:23 pm
Spike wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 11:07 pm
Your practice is FWM
I don't think that's fair (if I understand the FWM thingy)
But I do think it would be handy if a thread like this is moved to the lounge since it's about Enver's personal viewpoints and it's kind of like him "randomly" expressing his dharma-play thoughts one after the other, so it doesn't suit the main forum or the main subject in a general sense.
loves' the unjust has made clear his preference for his own invented Following White Method, which, as far as I know, has, and will only have, a lone follower. Regarding unfairness, in English, the word "unjust" means biased, prejudiced, and unfair. There is no such English usage as "loves''" (perhaps "love's" was meant?) However, I do love a good neologism, so let it stand. The sentiment, however, does not resonate with me.

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Spike
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Re: Zen Practice

Post by Spike » Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:44 am

fuki wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 11:27 pm
ps though we have plenty of "practise instructions" on this forum,
this one wouldn't hurt to add.

http://levekunst.com/the-sunlit-sky-of- ... -rinpoche/
This would be a wonderful post for a blog like dharmawheel. Whether it would hurt to post here, ofcourse, is not an issue, but, especially in a Zen Practice thread, since it isn't about zazen, koans, or a specific zen practice, it is irrelevant.

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fuki
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Re: Zen Practice

Post by fuki » Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:45 am

Spike wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:36 am


loves' the unjust has made clear his preference for his own invented Following White Method, which, as far as I know, has, and will only have, a lone follower.
I support Enver for Enver, I don't view his "follow white method" within a religious framework, eventhough this is a "zen forum" I believe he is sincere and will support him, though not much I say will be of benefit probably, I'm glad he's around. People are never satisfied, do you want a forum filled of Joe's, Envers, or Spike's? :hatsoff:
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fuki
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Re: Zen Practice

Post by fuki » Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:49 am

Spike wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:44 am

This would be a wonderful post for a blog like dharmawheel. Whether it would hurt to post here, ofcourse, is not an issue, but, especially in a Zen Practice thread, since it isn't about zazen, koans, or a specific zen practice, it is irrelevant.
So what did you ask about practise or actualization again the other day?

In actualizing things you think there's any dharmawheel or zen-forum "or hindu" left, or...excluded?

Hey didn't ask this to be moved to the lounge on "accident" ;)
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Spike
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Re: Zen Practice

Post by Spike » Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:58 am

fuki wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:45 am
Spike wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:36 am


loves' the unjust has made clear his preference for his own invented Following White Method, which, as far as I know, has, and will only have, a lone follower.
I support Enver for Enver, I don't view his "follow white method" within a religious framework, eventhough this is a "zen forum" I believe he is sincere and will support him, though not much I say will be of benefit probably, I'm glad he's around. People are never satisfied, do you want a forum filled of Joe's, Envers, or Spike's? :hatsoff:
I dont view zen within a religious framework. My preferred perspective is psychological.

"filled of . . . Spike's?" I try to be terse, and not overfill. In contrast, you are hands down the poster with the most comments (and perhaps the most recondite due to run-on sentences, lack of punctuation, and a sophisticated philosophical bent).

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fuki
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Re: Zen Practice

Post by fuki » Tue Jun 04, 2019 1:05 am

Spike wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:58 am
you are hands down the poster with the most comments (and perhaps the most recondite due to run-on sentences, lack of punctuation, and a sophisticated philosophical bent).
And another "true practisioner" hoists his own petard
163927931.kBoA6Qtl.YourMind.jpg
163927931.kBoA6Qtl.YourMind.jpg (120.99 KiB) Viewed 602 times
:111:

Who's FWM' ing with who? though I appreciate the intimacy :cat:
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Spike
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Re: Zen Practice

Post by Spike » Tue Jun 04, 2019 3:02 am

.

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Mason
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Re: Zen Practice

Post by Mason » Tue Jun 04, 2019 5:57 am

Spike, could you expand on what you mean by "psychological perspective?"

In my experience, Zen is not a form of therapy. Though it has many benefits, it can also open up terrain which could be very difficult to process for some people, especially within a strictly psychotherapeutic context.

Or perhaps you mean to indicate a form of Zen which is compatible with philosophical materialism - the ideological stance that consciousness is an emergent property of matter, or in other words, a temporary neurological hallucination. From that perspective, it seems to me, the foundational teachings of the Buddha would just be delusions, and Zen would be, again, just a strange form of therapy.

More likely, I'm just misinterpreting what you said, so I'm interested how you would clarify this matter. Thanks!
"The Way needs no cultivation, just do not defile. What is defilement? When with a mind of birth and death one acts in a contrived way, then everything is a defilement. If one wants to know the Way directly: Ordinary Mind is the Way!"

- Record of Ma-tsu

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Spike
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Re: Zen Practice

Post by Spike » Tue Jun 04, 2019 8:16 pm

Mason wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 5:57 am
Spike, could you expand on what you mean by "psychological perspective?"

In my experience, Zen is not a form of therapy. Though it has many benefits, it can also open up terrain which could be very difficult to process for some people, especially within a strictly psychotherapeutic context.

Or perhaps you mean to indicate a form of Zen which is compatible with philosophical materialism - the ideological stance that consciousness is an emergent property of matter, or in other words, a temporary neurological hallucination. From that perspective, it seems to me, the foundational teachings of the Buddha would just be delusions, and Zen would be, again, just a strange form of therapy.

More likely, I'm just misinterpreting what you said, so I'm interested how you would clarify this matter. Thanks!
Critical literary theory includes several perspectives or points of view. Biographical theory means studying the author's lived life to better understand his meaning. Historical theory says look at what happened that influenced or gave context to events to understand an author's stories, or his exposition or interpretation of events.
I consider zen to be anti-philosophical. My background, education and upbringing was Catholic, so I don't easily see Buddhism in terms of religion, because the two are in many ways
more dissimilar than similar, to say the least.

I don't view zen as therapy per se. I agree that it may not be a healthy practice sometimes for some people. I believe psychology has come a long way in opening up to buddhism (Jung, theory of the collective unconscious, "this is it" statement, etc.), and I like to use a psychological context, when appropriate, to understand it, like when I am reading about it, as well as the state of mind of an author of books or blog comments to get at what the text may mean.
P.S. I've already said what I think of using "mental operations" in koan practice in the Mumonkan case five thread.

Cheers!

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