Zen Practice

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Spike
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Re: Zen Practice

Post by Spike » Wed May 29, 2019 10:24 am

loves' the unjust wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 9:41 am
I'm sure my motor nerouns will activate the practicing of this teaching sooner or later.

Would you (generally speaking!)
have any advices on?


./\.
namaste
Back in 1971, in my hippie days, I decided to drive up from Virginia to Cape Breton in Canada, take the ferry over to Newfoundland, and hitchhike from St. John to Port aux Basque. I got a ride to a desolate crossroads, no buildings, just the highway, low scrub, and an intersecting dirt road. I camped there overnight. Got up the next morning and hoped for a ride. After an hour of no traffic, a car came but passed me by. Later, a bakery truck approached. Donuts, I thought to myself! But it too went on past. Finally a pickup truck stopped. In it were two guys. Their job was to transport a truck transmission in the pickup truck's bed to the destination I was going. I put my backpack in the bed, and the passenger got out to let me sit in the middle. (Normally I would never sit anywhere except next to a door, and would not get separated from my gear, but . . . ). As I got in, the passenger went around to the cooler in the back and returned with theee beers. It was about 9 AM. He gave one to the driver, looked at me and said, in a Scottish brogue, "So, would you care for a beer?" I said, thanks, but it's too soon. He replied, "Oh, but it'll never be too soon, it'll only be too late."

(Needless to say, drank it)

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fuki
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Re: Zen Practice

Post by fuki » Wed May 29, 2019 11:08 am

Caodemarte wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 6:52 pm
“No mind” does not mean that the mind does not function or exists or does not exist. Just that it functions freely without obstructions, such as artificial ideas about it. So just breathe, just plan, just sit, at the appropriate moment. Try to be whole hearted. Just be fully aware as appropriate so there is no room of thinking about being aware or other distractions. You will have plenty of time to do that later.
To put it more straightly, when we refer to "no-mind" it means there is no deluded mind, only the true mind of spontanoeus arising wisdom.
I have this book at home, recommended (anything sheng yen) Enver please read it.
https://books.google.nl/books?id=xwQBJG ... en&f=false

here's the online version With a Guide to Ch'an Practice by Master Sheng-Yen;
https://terebess.hu/english/hsin3.html
meldpunt seksueel misbruik in boeddhistische gemeenschappen.
https://meldpuntbg.nl/

IZIhttp://www.zeninstitute.org/en/iziae/main.html

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loves' the unjust
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Re: Zen Practice

Post by loves' the unjust » Wed May 29, 2019 11:26 am

Spike wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 10:24 am
loves' the unjust wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 9:41 am
I'm sure my motor nerouns will activate the practicing of this teaching sooner or later.

Would you (generally speaking!)
have any advices on?


./\.
namaste
Back in 1971, in my hippie days, I decided to drive up from Virginia to Cape Breton in Canada, take the ferry over to Newfoundland, and hitchhike from St. John to Port aux Basque. I got a ride to a desolate crossroads, no buildings, just the highway, low scrub, and an intersecting dirt road. I camped there overnight. Got up the next morning and hoped for a ride. After an hour of no traffic, a car came but passed me by. Later, a bakery truck approached. Donuts, I thought to myself! But it too went on past. Finally a pickup truck stopped. In it were two guys. Their job was to transport a truck transmission in the pickup truck's bed to the destination I was going. I put my backpack in the bed, and the passenger got out to let me sit in the middle. (Normally I would never sit anywhere except next to a door, and would not get separated from my gear, but . . . ). As I got in, the passenger went around to the cooler in the back and returned with theee beers. It was about 9 AM. He gave one to the driver, looked at me and said, in a Scottish brogue, "So, would you care for a beer?" I said, thanks, but it's too soon. He replied, "Oh, but it'll never be too soon, it'll only be too late."

(Needless to say, drank it)


:106:

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loves' the unjust
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Re: Zen Practice

Post by loves' the unjust » Wed May 29, 2019 11:27 am

fuki wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 11:08 am
Caodemarte wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 6:52 pm
“No mind” does not mean that the mind does not function or exists or does not exist. Just that it functions freely without obstructions, such as artificial ideas about it. So just breathe, just plan, just sit, at the appropriate moment. Try to be whole hearted. Just be fully aware as appropriate so there is no room of thinking about being aware or other distractions. You will have plenty of time to do that later.
To put it more straightly, when we refer to "no-mind" it means there is no deluded mind, only the true mind of spontanoeus arising wisdom.
I have this book at home, recommended (anything sheng yen) Enver please read it.
https://books.google.nl/books?id=xwQBJG ... en&f=false

here's the online version With a Guide to Ch'an Practice by Master Sheng-Yen;
https://terebess.hu/english/hsin3.html
Thanks.reading..

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fuki
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Re: Zen Practice

Post by fuki » Wed May 29, 2019 12:24 pm

loves' the unjust wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 9:41 am

For the first time in these past 15 years someone who is you is clearly understand me.And give an answer of %100 which I embrace.That was the answer I was waiting for. I think now; we are speaking the same language.
Thanks for writing this, and thanks Spike, this is to me the beauty of forums.
Spike is very attentive when it comes to understanding people.
[SPOILER]
(except "Joe" perhaps or they just like to fight haha)
:P

There might also be a language "barrier" Enver, my English is reasonably good but sometimes miscommunication still happens due to English not being my mother's tongue.

ps for what it is worth Enver, I've had years where I couldn't be motivated to practise, the more I thought about why that was the more it actually enhanced this non-motivation, just be patient, something or someone will light your match, it's a natural process. ps for me in retrospect I was (too) goal-orientated in practise even when I thought I wasn't. This is also practise, observing "hidden" self-contracted cravings, zazen isn't just on the zafu, just notice your internal questions arise and fall, it is in your nature to see things come and go without trying to analyze or categorize them. This itself is practise, it doesn't need to be on the cushion and called "zazen"
If not helpful just grant it no attention and wait for Spike. :)
meldpunt seksueel misbruik in boeddhistische gemeenschappen.
https://meldpuntbg.nl/

IZIhttp://www.zeninstitute.org/en/iziae/main.html

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loves' the unjust
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Re: Zen Practice

Post by loves' the unjust » Wed May 29, 2019 1:28 pm

Fuki wrote: zazen isn't just on the zafu, just notice your internal questions arise and fall, it is in your nature to see things come and go without trying to analyze or categorize them. This itself is practise, it doesn't need to be on the cushion and called "zazen"
If not helpful just grant it no attention and wait for Spike. :)
Very helpful.Thanks

It is like to open up the fan on a sweaty day.

./\.

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Spike
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Re: Zen Practice

Post by Spike » Wed May 29, 2019 3:51 pm

loves' the unjust wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 11:27 am
fuki wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 11:08 am
Caodemarte wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 6:52 pm
“No mind” does not mean that the mind does not function or exists or does not exist. Just that it functions freely without obstructions, such as artificial ideas about it. So just breathe, just plan, just sit, at the appropriate moment. Try to be whole hearted. Just be fully aware as appropriate so there is no room of thinking about being aware or other distractions. You will have plenty of time to do that later.
To put it more straightly, when we refer to "no-mind" it means there is no deluded mind, only the true mind of spontanoeus arising wisdom.
I have this book at home, recommended (anything sheng yen) Enver please read it.
https://books.google.nl/books?id=xwQBJG ... en&f=false

here's the online version With a Guide to Ch'an Practice by Master Sheng-Yen;
https://terebess.hu/english/hsin3.html
Thanks.reading..
Note that the context of these talks is a series of retreats, or sesshin, where monks and students are practicing zazen. Note that some of the content deals with zazen.

There is no substitute, that I know of, that is equivalent to zazen, within the realm of zen practice.

Consider lighting your own match.

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fuki
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Re: Zen Practice

Post by fuki » Wed May 29, 2019 4:26 pm

Spike, I posted that because there is a lot of "confusement" regarding "no-mind"
not that it is to be understood intellectually, but on a forum like this it's functional to share Sheng Yen's words about "no-mind" at least I found it to be so in this current conversation/thread.
There is no substitute, that I know of, that is equivalent to zazen, within the realm of zen practice.

Consider lighting your own match.
Polishing tiles eh?
meldpunt seksueel misbruik in boeddhistische gemeenschappen.
https://meldpuntbg.nl/

IZIhttp://www.zeninstitute.org/en/iziae/main.html

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Spike
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Re: Zen Practice

Post by Spike » Wed May 29, 2019 5:44 pm

fuki wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 4:26 pm
Spike, I posted that because there is a lot of "confusement" regarding "no-mind"
not that it is to be understood intellectually, but on a forum like this it's functional to share Sheng Yen's words about "no-mind" at least I found it to be so in this current conversation/thread.
There is no substitute, that I know of, that is equivalent to zazen, within the realm of zen practice.

Consider lighting your own match.
Polishing tiles eh?
Yes, with my fat butt!

Fuki, I am so sorry! I meant to refer to loves' the unjust to light his own match. Clearly, you are already lit up.

"What could I do? I just followed what my teacher said and kept practicing until one day my body and mind naturally began to work together. It is a process for which there is no substitute."

-- http://damazen.com/polishing-a-tile-into-a-mirror/

After surgeries for torn knee cartilage, a bad L2 disk, and a broken hip, and regardless of the effects of lifelong scoliosis and monkey mind, I (can) still sit. It is what my teachers told me to do.

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fuki
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Re: Zen Practice

Post by fuki » Wed May 29, 2019 6:18 pm

Spike wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 5:44 pm

Yes, with my fat butt!

Fuki, I am so sorry! I meant to refer to loves' the unjust to light his own match. Clearly, you are already lit up.
Spike I got that! I was referring to my own experience that there are numberless of opportunities in daily life "outside of zafu-zazen" to light one's match, if one would just remain in primal awareness, but many practisioners have some idea that practise is this and that, confined to a physical place or dependend on one's teacher or "wise man" for me everything is the teacher and the world is my seiza bench, This is all related to Enver's comment of "today is invalid"
"What could I do? I just followed what my teacher said and kept practicing until one day my body and mind naturally began to work together. It is a process for which there is no substitute."
yes ofcourse faith in one's teachers instructions is all that's needed if one is sincere.
(no contradiction to what I wrote above)
After surgeries for torn knee cartilage, a bad L2 disk, and a broken hip, and regardless of the effects of lifelong scoliosis and monkey mind, I (can) still sit. It is what my teachers told me to do.
My instructions where somewhat different, it's not specifically posture related. :hatsoff:
meldpunt seksueel misbruik in boeddhistische gemeenschappen.
https://meldpuntbg.nl/

IZIhttp://www.zeninstitute.org/en/iziae/main.html

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Mason
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Re: Zen Practice

Post by Mason » Wed May 29, 2019 6:29 pm

I'm curious, Enver: what draws you to Zen practice, in particular? What is your motivation?
"The Way needs no cultivation, just do not defile. What is defilement? When with a mind of birth and death one acts in a contrived way, then everything is a defilement. If one wants to know the Way directly: Ordinary Mind is the Way!"

- Record of Ma-tsu

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loves' the unjust
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Re: Zen Practice

Post by loves' the unjust » Wed May 29, 2019 6:40 pm

Mason wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 6:29 pm
I'm curious, Enver: what draws you to Zen practice, in particular? What is your motivation?
My admiration to Bodhidharma.

mm, I always think I am exceptional.

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fuki
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Re: Zen Practice

Post by fuki » Wed May 29, 2019 6:51 pm

loves' the unjust wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 6:40 pm
mm, I always think I am exceptional.
That's due to comparing yourself with others, comes to show the dependend origination of a self-image, it is always in relation/relative :)

Ofcourse you are different in form and behaviour to other food-vehicles, but in Essence there can be no differences or seperation. I think you are a wonderful man taking care of his parents and it's a pleasure to know you.
meldpunt seksueel misbruik in boeddhistische gemeenschappen.
https://meldpuntbg.nl/

IZIhttp://www.zeninstitute.org/en/iziae/main.html

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Spike
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Re: Zen Practice

Post by Spike » Wed May 29, 2019 6:53 pm

fuki wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 6:18 pm

Spike I got that! I was referring to my own experience that there are numberless of opportunities in daily life "outside of zafu-zazen" to light one's match, if one would just remain in primal awareness, but many practisioners have some idea that practise is this and that, confined to a physical place or dependend on one's teacher or "wise man" for me everything is the teacher and the world is my seiza bench, This is all related to Enver's comment of "today is invalid"
So this would be practice, rather than actualization of practice.

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fuki
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Re: Zen Practice

Post by fuki » Wed May 29, 2019 6:57 pm

Spike wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 6:53 pm


So this would be practice, rather than actualization of practice.
That doesn't matter now.
meldpunt seksueel misbruik in boeddhistische gemeenschappen.
https://meldpuntbg.nl/

IZIhttp://www.zeninstitute.org/en/iziae/main.html

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loves' the unjust
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Re: Zen Practice

Post by loves' the unjust » Wed May 29, 2019 7:14 pm

fuki wrote: it's a pleasure to know you.
it's my pleasure.

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loves' the unjust
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Re: Zen Practice

Post by loves' the unjust » Wed May 29, 2019 9:49 pm

Spike wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 3:51 pm
loves' the unjust wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 11:27 am
fuki wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 11:08 am
Caodemarte wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 6:52 pm
“No mind” does not mean that the mind does not function or exists or does not exist. Just that it functions freely without obstructions, such as artificial ideas about it. So just breathe, just plan, just sit, at the appropriate moment. Try to be whole hearted. Just be fully aware as appropriate so there is no room of thinking about being aware or other distractions. You will have plenty of time to do that later.
To put it more straightly, when we refer to "no-mind" it means there is no deluded mind, only the true mind of spontanoeus arising wisdom.
I have this book at home, recommended (anything sheng yen) Enver please read it.
https://books.google.nl/books?id=xwQBJG ... en&f=false

here's the online version With a Guide to Ch'an Practice by Master Sheng-Yen;
https://terebess.hu/english/hsin3.html
Thanks.reading..
Note that the context of these talks is a series of retreats, or sesshin, where monks and students are practicing zazen. Note that some of the content deals with zazen.

There is no substitute, that I know of, that is equivalent to zazen, within the realm of zen practice.

Consider lighting your own match.
ah, yea

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Great Sage EofH
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Re: Zen Practice

Post by Great Sage EofH » Thu May 30, 2019 3:26 am

Is everyone staying calm?
"We are magical animals that roam" ~~ Roam

Nothing
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Re: Zen Practice

Post by Nothing » Thu May 30, 2019 9:54 am

Great Sage EofH wrote:
Thu May 30, 2019 3:26 am
Is everyone staying calm?
According to one's ability :)

Seeker242
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Re: Zen Practice

Post by Seeker242 » Thu May 30, 2019 10:51 am

loves' the unjust wrote:
Sun Mar 03, 2019 2:19 pm


if we have understood what is the practice,
how much percentage of the way is completed?
If you understand a journey described by the map, how much of that journey have you completed? Could easily be none. :D

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