Mission

All things related to beginning Zen Practice. Here is where to exchange information between those that have already started Zen training and those planning to do so.
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loves' the unjust
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Mission

Post by loves' the unjust » Sun Feb 03, 2019 5:26 pm

Some may call me sharp-tongued.But we all have an animal base.And all the nature depend on eating each other.if you look to animals all are attacky.

but we are all humans.humans have mind.all our mission as humans should be to get wisdom or to be wise, did you ever think in this way?

that's all.
cooper

Kaya

Re: Mission

Post by Kaya » Sun Feb 03, 2019 6:42 pm

Enver M. wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 5:26 pm
Some may call me sharp-tongued.But we all have an animal base.And all the nature depend on eating each other.if you look to animals all are attacky.
"Attacky"=aggressive? And "all the nature depend on eating each other"? Simply not true. Some, but not all.
Enver M wrote: but we are all humans.humans have mind.all our mission as humans should be to get wisdom or to be wise, did you ever think in this way?

that's all.
Not much that I can recall. Maybe I should have long ago. Then maybe it would have sunk in by now. (And maybe I would have learned how to be a better blogger!) I always just tried to live fully.

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loves' the unjust
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Re: Mission

Post by loves' the unjust » Sun Feb 03, 2019 6:59 pm

Kaya wrote: "Attacky"=aggressive?
not exactly what i mean.like dynamic.
I always just tried to live fully.
:namaste:
cooper

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desert_woodworker
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Re: Mission

Post by desert_woodworker » Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:34 pm

Enver, I think that practitioners who come to Zen Buddhist practice -- and perhaps most other or many other Buddhist practitioners -- value Wisdom (true Wisdom, prajna) as the most precious development (or dawning) in a Human being. And with true Wisdom comes true Compassion, as they both "dawn" together at awakening. So yes, many others have thought this way, and think so now.

(the ancient Greeks valued wisdom also, but I don't know if the wisdom they had in mind is prajna, or ordinary worldly wisdom attained as a result of worldly experience and aging, and not necessarily as a result of sudden-awakening through zazen practice).

Practice must continue, though, even after a "dawning" or two, or more awakenings. The reason is that awakenings become covered-up again (most often, it seems). Perhaps the Bodhisattva can come to reach a balance in life with practice so that there are not large swings of Ignorance and Awakening any more, and there comes a kind of life which is like living on the "edge" of both. Doing so keeps us well in touch and in sympathy with the many Beings (we do not "escape to nirvana", like Arhats), but favorably allows our Buddha Nature to inform us and actively to guide us in our dealings and responses to beings, and in all our actions, in fact, as we live ordinary lives in the world.

By the way, it's not tongues that are sharp, but teeth! ;) And I like your invention of the word "attacky": well done! :hatsoff: I have a cat who is "attacky"... .

--Joe


Gato_enervado_0.jpg
Here's a picture of one, although not my cat. This posture may be more of a defensive pose, too, and not yet one of attack, which is usually one of slinky stealth.
Gato_enervado_0.jpg (208.01 KiB) Viewed 610 times
Enver M. wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 5:26 pm
Some may call me sharp-tongued.But we all have an animal base.And all the nature depend on eating each other.if you look to animals all are attacky.

but we are all humans.humans have mind.all our mission as humans should be to get wisdom or to be wise, did you ever think in this way?

that's all.

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loves' the unjust
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Re: Mission

Post by loves' the unjust » Mon Feb 04, 2019 8:14 pm

Thank you, joe

I wish I have wisdom.

If that was so I could/would know Everything!

And that would be great!


kind of you,
cooper

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Mason
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Re: Mission

Post by Mason » Mon Feb 04, 2019 9:19 pm

Well, in a sense, you do know everything.

Can you see a boundary to your awareness?

Is there some "barrier" or "limit" to your awareness?

Furthermore, awareness is always objective - that is, when one is aware, one is aware of something.

What's interesting is - even when one has realized the nondual totality of awareness - one can still move one's head, or arms, or feet, or etc.

And that's impermanence. When you act in any way (karma), this nondual totality of awareness moves with it (vipaka).

As such, all fabrications (like the Music thread in the lounge, which is filled with fabrications) are subject to decay.

Because awareness and attention need to be bound to the world (otherwise one would be simply "bound"), the correct intention is key.

And the correct intention (Right Thought, or Right Resolve) is, traditionally: non-harming, renunciation, and freedom from ill-will.

One modern interpretation of that could be: beautiful silence, stillness, and compassion.

Welp, that's my two-cents anyway. Which is probably only worth a penny (one cent.)
"The Way needs no cultivation, just do not defile. What is defilement? When with a mind of birth and death one acts in a contrived way, then everything is a defilement. If one wants to know the Way directly: Ordinary Mind is the Way!"

- Record of Ma-tsu

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desert_woodworker
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Re: Mission

Post by desert_woodworker » Mon Feb 04, 2019 9:34 pm

Enver,

I would not say that true Wisdom (prajna) has to do with knowing anything, so please check what you mean, and what you want.

True Wisdom is not "mental"!, I'd say.

I'd say that true Wisdom (prajna) is practical-Wisdom which arises just when it is needed, without any intellectual knowing before, during, or after. It guides our actions, which are delivered with fullest true Compassion (karuna). It is extremely fast, and this is why the Tibetan Buddhists depict it as a Lightning-Bolt, I feel sure. Because it is extremely fast, there is NO TIME in which for it to be known. It comes and goes too quickly. What we see afterwards are the results, the truly Compassionate results.

I'd just reiterate by saying that true Wisdom (prajna) and "knowing" have no connection.

(as I see it),

--Joe

Enver M. wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 8:14 pm
Thank you, joe

I wish I have wisdom.

If that was so I could/would know Everything!

And that would be great!

kind of you,

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loves' the unjust
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Re: Mission

Post by loves' the unjust » Mon Feb 04, 2019 9:42 pm

I'm ill. and have ill-will.

All my weapon is this don't know teaching which i hope to dissolve this state of mine.
cooper

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Re: Mission

Post by loves' the unjust » Mon Feb 04, 2019 9:51 pm

desert_woodworker wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 9:34 pm
Enver,

I would not say that true Wisdom (prajna) has to do with knowing anything, so please check what you mean, and what you want.

True Wisdom is not "mental"!, I'd say.

I'd say that true Wisdom (prajna) is practical-Wisdom which arises just when it is needed, without any intellectual knowing before, during, or after. It guides our actions, which are delivered with fullest true Compassion (karuna). It is extremely fast, and this is why the Tibetan Buddhists depict it as a Lightning-Bolt, I feel sure. Because it is extremely fast, there is NO TIME in which for it to be known. It comes and goes too quickly. What we see afterwards are the results, the truly Compassionate results.

I'd just reiterate by saying that true Wisdom (prajna) and "knowing" have no connection.

(as I see it),

--Joe
Thank you joe, appreciate
cooper

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desert_woodworker
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Re: Mission

Post by desert_woodworker » Mon Feb 04, 2019 9:53 pm

Hi, Enver,
Enver wrote:I'm ill. and have ill-will.

All my weapon is this don't know teaching which i hope to dissolve this state of mine.

The whole world is Ill.

We have this don't-know teaching, which has the smarts to dissolve this state of ours.

--Joe

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loves' the unjust
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Re: Mission

Post by loves' the unjust » Mon Feb 04, 2019 10:01 pm

:namaste:

May be how quick is your don't know that quick is your wisdom. eh
cooper

Kaya

Re: Mission

Post by Kaya » Mon Feb 04, 2019 10:08 pm

desert_woodworker wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 9:53 pm
Hi, Enver,
Enver wrote:I'm ill. and have ill-will.
The whole world is Ill.
--Joe
Not healthy to trivialize/generalize individual suffering, when empathy and compassion are clearly called for.

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Re: Mission

Post by loves' the unjust » Mon Feb 04, 2019 10:10 pm

desert_woodworker wrote: What we see afterwards are the results, the truly Compassionate results
You hit any target when you have one with your wisdom.When you have true compassion where do you hit?
Last edited by loves' the unjust on Mon Feb 04, 2019 10:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
cooper

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Re: Mission

Post by loves' the unjust » Mon Feb 04, 2019 10:14 pm

Kaya wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 10:08 pm
desert_woodworker wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 9:53 pm
Hi, Enver,
Enver wrote:I'm ill. and have ill-will.
The whole world is Ill.
--Joe
Not healthy to trivialize/generalize individual suffering, when empathy and compassion are clearly called for.
I sometimes think is the world that is ill? or just only me While the whole has enlightenment?
cooper

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loves' the unjust
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Re: Mission

Post by loves' the unjust » Mon Feb 04, 2019 10:21 pm

perfection of the Perfect
cooper

Kaya

Re: Mission

Post by Kaya » Mon Feb 04, 2019 10:44 pm

Mason wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 9:19 pm

As such, all fabrications (like the Music thread in the lounge, which is filled with fabrications) are subject to decay.
If that is your perception, and timelessness cannot come into play, consider an unfabricated alternative.

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Mason
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Re: Mission

Post by Mason » Tue Feb 05, 2019 12:00 am

From my learning and interpretation/translation of the ancient Buddhist texts:

The Buddha talked about three fabrications: body, voice, and mind.

Bodily fabrication is breathing; how you breathe will create certain states (results) in the body.

Vocal fabrication is inner and outer speech. How you vocalize thoughts in your mind, and how you speak to others will create certain states in the inner and outer environment.

Mental fabrication is perception and feeling. Your mental intentions give rise to certain experiences, and conditions how those experiences are felt in terms of feeling (painful, pleasant, and neither).

When one looks into the unknown (Nietzsche's "abyss") (also known as "Youtube"), what will appear is conditioned by your bodily, verbal, and mental activity, leading from the past and emerging (rising) in the present moment.

So the abyss of unknowing "stares back into you" in the form of appearances/apparitions, and those appearances will be perceived as either fabricated or unfabricated. If they are perceived as fabrication, that would be seeing fabricated things as fabricated, which is Wisdom. If they are perceived as unfabricated, or "out-there," self-existing on the basis of their own nature, that would be seeing fabricated things as unfabricated, and it is to that extent that all appearances of pleasant, painful, or neutral things remain "stuck" or "bound" in your mind.

That is the way in which all arisings, conditioned by karma, are dependent on ignorance (of the noble truths). The path onward from realizing the four noble truths is the noble eightfold path: correct view, correct thinking, correct speaking, correct action, correct livelihood, correct exertion, correct memory, and correct stillness.

This "stream" evoked by realization and moving into activity is itself a fabrication. The difference here is that it is a correct fabrication; a fabrication or activity which results in release of the mind, release of the voice, and release of the body.

Welp, that's my one-cent anyway (a penny). :lol:
"The Way needs no cultivation, just do not defile. What is defilement? When with a mind of birth and death one acts in a contrived way, then everything is a defilement. If one wants to know the Way directly: Ordinary Mind is the Way!"

- Record of Ma-tsu

Kaya

Re: Mission

Post by Kaya » Tue Feb 05, 2019 12:22 am

When I play music on guitar, i am not often conscious of fabrication. It is "flow". Same thing in sports. Crucially, these experiences do no exist, because they do not abide, and there is zero intentionality.

Nietzsche/Youtube: LOL

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desert_woodworker
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Re: Mission

Post by desert_woodworker » Tue Feb 05, 2019 1:21 am

Kaya wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 10:08 pm
Not healthy to trivialize/generalize individual suffering, when empathy and compassion are clearly called for.
Enver's post is about "Wisdom".

The whole world is ill.

The whole world is medicine.

Writing for the 138 Members here, I'd say, Enver, et al., take heart.

--Joe
Last edited by desert_woodworker on Tue Feb 05, 2019 1:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Mission

Post by desert_woodworker » Tue Feb 05, 2019 1:28 am

Enver M. wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 10:10 pm
desert_woodworker wrote: What we see afterwards are the results, the truly Compassionate results
You hit any target when you have one with your wisdom. When you have true compassion where do you hit?
The same place. True Wisdom and true Compassion arise simultaneously and spontaneously. They are not separate, and never separate.

But, that's moot. For them to do so (to arise), one must be awake. For that, one must practice, and have good cooperating causes and conditions, in the practice and in our lives.

Good to seek the best situation in which to learn the practice you're interested in, and to cultivate (it). This is true for all of us. Nobody is special that way.

best,

--Joe

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